New Sellaband terms and conditions

[michel]

Hello people,

I'm terribly confused. I do not want to accept the new T&C's because the document is full of inconsistencies and it forces me to open a Paypal account if I ever want my money back.

The thing is: I do want my money credited to my bankaccount but without cancelling my Sellaband account. I want to continue my relation with the 50k artists I funded.

Am I right that this is isn't an option? And can this really be forced on me?

[WalterM]

Hi Michael,
Since SellaBand started it's relation with payment provider Ayden, about a year ago, it was no longer possible to get paid to your bank account. Paypal was the only option for quite some time and this has not changed with SellaBand GmbH

[danny]

True, although I don't remember ever agreeing to that change so I never considered it valid anyway

[arnis]

Greetings all !!

Just for general info I thought I'd inform the "board" about my feelings and communication with SAB. Firstly I pressed the I disagree tabs several times and filled in the reasons for disagreeing box and as I understand from the email I am no longer part of sellaband...as per the reply :-

Dear Arnis ,
Unfortunately you have decided to cancel your membership of SellaBand. If you are sure you want this please send a cancellation email via [e-mail] and we will get back to you as soon as possible with a confirmation of the cancellation plus information about if and how you can withdraw money from your SellaBand account.
But we still hope you have changed your mind and still want to make use of SellaBand. If that is the case please confirm your acceptance of the new terms and conditions here.
The Sellaband Team

Visit our website at www.sellaband.com

Note Bene, I didnt really decide to cancel my membership simply didnt agree to t and C and I gave my reasons. Other interesting thing was the phrase "plus information about if and how you can withdraw money from your SellaBand account. " Dont you just love the IF?? Last time I remember phrases like that was in the early nineties when shaven headed, thick necked chappies in smart leather jackets used to offer me their splendid protection services!! :-)

[arnis]

What I wrote in the reasons box is included in the text below which is the email I sent (having no record of my response to the web form I though it appropriate to confirm by email) email was a sfollows :-

Dear Sir/Madam,

Below is a copy of the text provided as my reasons for not pressing the „I agree” tab with regard to the changes in Terms and Conditions.

„At this stage I would say that I am still mulling over the changes in terms and conditions and am supportive of the Sellaband concept and it's aims. I am also understanding of the real world and that the company needs a realistic revenue source to build on the good work done so far in developing the idea so changes such as the increase in admin fees seem necessary as the original model of developing revenue from advertising unfortunately didnt work. HOWEVER, when considering that I have already made a reasonable financial committment in artists that have achieved their sellaband goal and those still "in progress" and am now faced with in effect being blocked from the Sellaband site unless I electronically agree to unilateral changes in what at least under latvian law would be considered a binding contract my mind set is going from curious understanding to outrage and I must say anger. Perhaps your aims are true but your methods are antagonistic and do not portend a harmonious future between Sellaband and myself.....and from what I read elsewhere other believers. Pretty sad really, especially as I feel the concept is sound and that you are in danger of wasting not only an opportunity for yourselves but also a great many artists out there in the world. As a final note let me state in writing that I consider your action of wilfully denying my access to the site and information about my parts held, account information etc. as a breach of the original contract on your part and to say the least unethical. Now that you have unilaterally broken that contract it leaves an interesting legal situation with regard to my funds in escrow and the „commitments” pertaining to artists who have succeeded in reaching their target. I will take advice on this issue.”

I will be in touch following consultations and formally state that I consider Sellaband GMBH liable for any costs or losses associated with what I consider to be a unilateral breach of contract.
Regards
Arnis Lejins

[mawa]

Thank you Arnis for letting us know.

[berry71]

Well stated Arnis. I can only agree with that.

[Lucretia]

Can only echo the thanks others have already posted on this issue Arnis. Here's also hoping that the Sellaband representative who has kindly joined us here will also pick up on this first thing Monday morning. I'm sure many others as well as myself will be interested to see how this situation develops

[Utterly B Groovy]

2. Escrow
All money invested in a Music Project will be held in escrow by a third party.
Neither party will have any access or rights to these funds prior to reaching the Goal of fund raising for the Project.

Erm, OK, so if someone has money in escrow for more than 2 weeks and decides to leave, what happens to the money they put in escrow? If the money isn't left on a Project Account for an Artist, or the Artist also leaves, does it just stay there for ever?
That's certainly what the T&Cs seem to be saying?

UBG

[Utterly B Groovy]

For the record, I don't like the "two week" rule but I'd see not accepting as cutting off my nose to spite my face.

As I understand it, if I accept the awful T&C's (the specific problem being the Two Weeks malarky) I can withdraw all the money I have left (minus any Gift Parts) and continue, thereby keeping a finger on the pulse, and safeguarding any potential revenue from sales of my leCDs (if that is still going to be allowed - no mention of leCDs in the T&Cs though, so who knows), and of course any meagre income from Artist sales, publishing, whatever.

Finger on the pulse: I still think it's a good idea and would like to support it if there's anyway I can ... but that Two Week rule basically blows it out of the water!

If I say "no thanks" I do (apparently) get the money back (although I'm not sure anyone has done this successfully yet!) but then abandon any right to those meagre 'future earnings'?
Are they bound by the old T&Cs to continue to pay 'future earnings' anyway, or did the bankruptcy cleanly (cleverly?) sever any such bindings?

I tell you, two weeks doesn't seem like a lot of time to work out the wrinkles in this one!

UBG

[thor]

We have been always told that believers who have parts in $50k artists cannot leave.

And now they are kind of forced to leave when they do not accept the new T&Cs?

Besides the lousy revenue earnings (which still offer a little chance to get some ROI in case a miracle will happen within 5 years), what will be done with the outstanding leCDs from projects which are completely funded but not released yet if the believer isn't a believer any more?

[mawa]

Well, my guess for this is the following:

1) with the bankcrupsy of "Sellaband AG" all contracts are void
a) these agreements were twofold, one where Artist-Sellaband and
b) the others were Sellaband-Believer (wasn't there a funny discussion with Bob about this once, where he advocated loudly, that this isn't the case...anyway)
2) the new company ("Sellaband GmbH") bought out of the 'assets'....hm, probably:
- the software for the website
- the adressbook (what they called CRM system)
- and promised to the trustee to keep existing commitments to a) artists which had reached their goal and b) believers in those artists
- ...if possible, because as said, all previous agreements are void.

So, I guess, what the "SellaBand GmbH" now first has to do is to establish new agreements between them and the artists, who had reached their goal....before they can make any offers to the believers in those....

[thor]

mawa: you forgot to include Dagmar in your asset list

Who was it who was always explaining Sellaband as kind of an 'ebay', as a man in the middle only offering a service to artists, and that SAB is not responsible or liable for anything? Now we can see that it's not like that, but that artists and believers had contracts Sellaband - which might be void now..

[li]

The bankruptcy report that the Curator will publish in 2 1/2 weeks time will clarify which assets were bought by the new GmbH. That will make for interesting reading and all speculations null and void ;-)

Last Friday I asked legal advice, of which the essence is:

1. New T&C's were essential. What is not legal is to prohibit access to your account when you're not accepting the new T&Cs. However, to make sure that you can't actively trade parts any longer, each account with a "don't agree" should be marked as inactive and only allow a one-time retrieval of all outstanding funds. Please note: Accounts which hold parts in "50K artists" can never be cancelled, only be inactive (not deactivated). The account holder should have unrestricted access at all times once his status is officially inactive, solely to manage his current assets. Only trading should be disallowed.

2. In case that the limited edition albums that believers had in stock on the Sellaband premises, wait for the Curator report for details or ask Sellaband GmbH if these assets have been taken over. In case they have not been taken over, the Owners of the leCDs should file a claim with the Curator. However, since the Curator has effectively closed the bankruptcy procedure, these assets will most likely have been transferred to the new owner.

3. On the financial (and/or banking) regulations the issue is more complex. Most likely the position that the legal advisor of the new Owners has taken, is that the believers buy a Part and do not pre-buy an Album. It means that the German 2 weeks right to withdraw the transaction/sale is applicable. This is, however, an interpretation of the Sellaband business model. Another interpretation that the old Sellaband AG had is equally valid. A believer pre-buys an album, ergo does not get the album within 2 weeks. To ensure that the pre-payment stays secure, it is deposited in an escrow. If the pre-buying does not result in an album within a reasonable timeframe, in the old Sellaband model this would have been reaching the set budget ($ 50'000), the pre-payment in escrow can be paid back on request.

[mawa]

Hi Li

yeah, I know, but we all like guessing, don't we?

Regarding the new model, I think I did figured that out without a lawyer, but that actually brings me to an analogy, part buying will now be like buying "Reward points" on Mafia Wars. funny enough I had spend my last enourmous Sellaband earnings for excactly that purpose

You can join my mafia by the way on facebook

So, it all depends for the future, whether the Sellaband can provide enough fun like Mafia Wars in return for your money