lindy
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 14
|
Post by lindy on Feb 26, 2010 0:20:41 GMT
I'm just sharing with you what I have just mailed to fellow DT and Pack members (after which I reactivated my artist profile): I am about to agree to the terms and conditions on my Artist profile as soon as I've sent this e-mail. I also have a believer profile, which I'll not touch for a couple of days, and so does my husband. We'll leave these accounts unaccessed for a couple of days until we know a bit more. For the ones in the recording process, I advise you to first get a statement from management about the 10 or 15% SAB fee. This is extremely important for you. As previous statements (like the one on the site until tonight states that they will honour the rights of artists already recorded or recording for 100%, you may be able to hold them to the 10%! As for the others not on target yet but near, and maybe with arrangements already in place based on the 10% agreement, perhaps you also should wait. I've saved copies of all 4 T&C's on my computer so that I will always know what I've agreed to at this date. For me 5% extra is a little setback, but hey, maybe I'll become the first one to actually RAISE my target. I'm planning to continue. The way the Artist Agreement is now set up, and if you agree to it with the typo's that are still in it, you may have something to slap back into their face. But I Am Not A Lawyer In regard to the believers T&C... Pff.. I can imagine how upsetting this must and can be to some. questions that rise: 1) If an artist I believe in decides to leave, what will happen with the parts I have invested. Will I be able to have these refunded to my bank account or will they stay in my balance to re-invest. 2) Does this T&C apply to the parts bought AFTER the bankruptcy/sale or to ALL parts invested previously. 3) If you don't agree, and your account is closed, will you still be able to get your money back?? One good thing is that the money is still in escrow. We've now got proof that that worked as those funds are still there!! We as artists may need to consider to have the T&C's looked upon by a German Lawyer. When we as a group make that a joined effort, it will be affordable. Hey, perhaps we can raise funds for that on SAB under the cover of "promotion" There are far more questions I guess, I just got home from choir practice, haven't had a change to read everything, but these are, for the moment, just my 2 cents. Some of you will get this message twice, for the same reason as Eline stated Big hug, wishing all of us wisdom, calmth and SUCCESS!!! Lindy
|
|
|
Post by WalterM on Feb 26, 2010 0:23:15 GMT
cat: the most interesting part after the quote of Dagmar is "We suspect this is because banks would like to have control over the believers' money in case of a second bankruptcy" so you're admitting you didn't check if this is indeed the case. @lu: I guess that answer a part of where I feel the source of missinformation and bashing SAB comes from
|
|
cat
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 10
|
Post by cat on Feb 26, 2010 0:41:02 GMT
cat: the most interesting part after the quote of Dagmar is "We suspect this is because banks would like to have control over the believers' money in case of a second bankruptcy" so you're admitting you didn't check if this is indeed the case. We tried to check that in the only way possible: Johan asked Dagmar about it by email, but we haven't received an answer so far, which is why I wrote "we suspect". We think it is too risky to agree to Terms and Conditions that are so unclear when it comes to what happens to believers' funds in case of bankruptcy.
|
|
lindy
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 14
|
Post by lindy on Feb 26, 2010 1:07:35 GMT
From the Fund Raising Agreement: 3. Escrow All money invested in a Music Project will be held in escrow. The escrow account is administered by a third party. Neither party will have access or rights to these funds prior to reaching the Goal of fund raising for the Project. The user can, within two weeks of purchasing the Parts, claim back his money. Money can at any time, until the Project has reached the fund raising Goal, be transferred from one Project to another. From what I read from that is a) money is still in escrow, so should not be affected by another bankruptcy. b) you can no longer get your money back but you can re-invest after the 2 week period. c) unclear what happens to the money in case OF another bankruptcy. I've reactivated my artist profile, but not yet believer profiles (one I use to invest offline funds, the other is my husbands). This is because of the "c", as there is no statement what is the status of the money on your balance but not invested. Looks like it's not in escrow.. Some artists have already put lawyers on this, expect we'll hear some news soon
|
|
cat
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 10
|
Post by cat on Feb 26, 2010 1:24:23 GMT
c) unclear what happens to the money in case OF another bankruptcy. Exactly, this is the most worrying thing atm and we are waiting for the answer. Why would there be the two-week period if the money was safe (available to be sent back to the believers) in case of bankruptcy? Perhaps because then the banks would have the right to take over the money - but we are not sure about it, waiting to hear more.
|
|
alycook
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 5
|
Post by alycook on Feb 26, 2010 1:52:26 GMT
Have not ticked the conditions for either believer or artist.
As I fear ticking the artist one .. would null and void the current agreement im under..
My PR Company in France is seeking legal advice on my behalf in the morning.
I have it verbally from Dagmar that current projects like mine are under the old Terms and conditions ..ala 10% to sella. However that is not stated anywhere ..and in view of the fact that their has been a bancruptcy and an aquisision by a new company in a new country in the last 3 days ..and I have to click the agreement to get to my page.
I need legal clarification.
I cant risk clicking the new terms till I get legal clarification.
Im trying to make sure I have all 224 of my beleivers in contact with me so if you believed in my project and youve not been receiving emails from me .. then please email alyC@xtra.co.nz
Hopefully it will all come out in the wash .. this kind of stress is not condusive to good creativity ..
Best to all
Aly
|
|
|
Post by Lucretia on Feb 26, 2010 3:59:17 GMT
If I were you I'd make sure you get hold of the German version of the T&C as well. According to paragraph 10.2 in the general T&C in case of dispute, those are the prevailing documents. Somewhat worrying when the second paragraph of the same document seems to suggest the T&C are only available in English.... Go figure that one...
|
|
xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
|
Post by xahmol on Feb 26, 2010 5:26:55 GMT
Walter, it's very simple.
If, for example, I am a huge fan of, say, Public Enemy. I invest big in PE to get the recognition, free T-shirt etc, so say US$ 150. I am completely uninterested in any other project.
Public Enemy than leaves Sellaband three weeks after I made my investment.
Nice, my money is stuck in SAB, only thing I now can do with my money is invest in other artists that I have no interest to do. I will not get my PE CD and T-shirt, not my money back, only the option to invest in artists I do not care about and hope they won't leave also.
Another example. You have several thousands of dollars invested at SAB. SAB changes it's artists T&C again in such a way that it is not acceptable to all artists I am supporting. They all leave. I can't get my money back.
Unacceptable!
Also: SAB always answered on the question why SAB was legal and not needed to be regulated by investment authorities that they could do that BECAUSE you could always get your money back. Now they suddenly do not have this issue?
No, to me SAB has signed their dead warrant with this. And surprised to see you in the optimistic denial mode again.
|
|
xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
|
Post by xahmol on Feb 26, 2010 5:45:02 GMT
Oh, and about the FX issue: The solution is very very simple for SAB. Open a dollar bank escrow account for dollar balances. In that case no FX risk for SAB, only for non-dollar believers, as to SAB the money is both deposited and credited in Dollars, no FX conversion whatsoever. Every bank offers dollar denominated bank accounts. If they did not do this that proves that oldSAB did not know a thing about proper financial management and that they had very bad advisors as well.
Besides: the idea that people might only use SAB as a piggybank for FX speculation is not plausible at all as well. If that is your only intention, just opening a dollar denominated savings account or trade dollars on the spot market gives you a lot lower fees and you can trade within seconds. With SAB you can not control the timing and FX rate of withdrawals, withdrawals take weeks, so the dollar could be down again by the time you receive. So that there are people that actually gained on the FX rate is just a coincidental by effect of people withdrawing money for entirely different reasons.
Also: how can ever withdrawals from believers cause bankruptcy of SAB? The money is in escrow. So the money was and is never freely available to SAB anyway. If a believer requests his or her money back, the only thing SAB looses is interest.
After hitting target the money is locked, so also no risk of not having enough money for commitments to artists because of money withdrawals.
So these arguments are simply not valid or easily solved without the need for the new clause 4.5
|
|
tiemen
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 3
|
Post by tiemen on Feb 26, 2010 8:38:20 GMT
Personally, I was planning on hanging around and seeing how things work out. I will still hang around. However, because of 4.5 if "sold" all my parts and requested payout by e-mail.
I'm very sorry it has to be this way, but it's my money and I want to be able to get it back as long as an artist didn't reach the goal.
|
|
|
Post by ramona on Feb 26, 2010 9:26:08 GMT
Did the same thing as Tiemen did. I'll keep my profile, but have sold (most of) my parts and mailed SAB with a request for payout (as the payout function is still "temporary unavailable"). The "not being able to get my money back if an artist doesn't reach his goal in 2 weeks" had me make that decision. I can always invest under the new T&C if ever I feel like it.
|
|
whaley
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
Posts: 265
|
Post by whaley on Feb 26, 2010 10:21:11 GMT
I wonder if there's any chance of a judge overruling (parts of) the T&C if it ever should get to court. The text doesn't quite look watertight to me but what if you knowingly agree to them anyway?
|
|
thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
|
Post by thor on Feb 26, 2010 10:41:49 GMT
All money invested in a Music Project will be held in escrow. The escrow account is administered by a third party.
Does this interpretation include that the money which is currently on the believer's user balance is not on an escrow account?
|
|
danielwm
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 57
|
Post by danielwm on Feb 26, 2010 11:06:58 GMT
Hi all, I feel... well it feel rather pointless stating how I feel.
A few questions:
- If I want to withdraw the few quid in my believer profile can I either click 'accept' or 'not accept' and then proceed to payout? (when it is working!) - re: my artist account - can I still access it if I click 'do not accept'?
Cheers DWM
|
|
debbje
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 1
|
Post by debbje on Feb 26, 2010 11:21:13 GMT
|
|