Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Mar 3, 2010 14:40:53 GMT
OK, so apart from 40-odd SAB Artists reaching their target, a plethora of Sellaband gigs, even more non-sellaband gigs, new friends, new enemies, a loft full of leCDs, aqueducts, and it being safe to walk the streets at night ... what has Sellaband done for us?
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berry71
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 21
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Post by berry71 on Mar 3, 2010 14:53:39 GMT
Well...they learned me once again that you must never believe all the things people are promising...and they learned me to listen to my heart, I had my doubts about SAB for a long time but I waited too long to pull back my money. Now I have the feeling I should have done it much earlier because when I look back, I can say that after the Arenafest-issue it was over for me.
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Post by Lucretia on Mar 3, 2010 16:16:36 GMT
OK, so apart from 40-odd SAB Artists reaching their target, a plethora of Sellaband gigs, even more non-sellaband gigs, new friends, new enemies, a loft full of leCDs, aqueducts, and it being safe to walk the streets at night ... what has Sellaband done for us? Well I'd say I've had the opportunity to listen to music from artists I would probably never have found otherwise. But you could say the same about many other places on that score as well tbh, because it's part of the luck factor artists face in getting their music heard. It's also given me a "hands-on" experience in the crowdfunding phenomenon, something I would probably have never taken the plunge into in the first place if the condition about being able to get your money back any time you wanted hadn't been present in the original site.
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 3, 2010 16:58:41 GMT
OK, so apart from 40-odd SAB Artists reaching their target, a plethora of Sellaband gigs, even more non-sellaband gigs, new friends, new enemies, a loft full of leCDs, aqueducts, and it being safe to walk the streets at night ... what has Sellaband done for us? Apart from finding a lot of nice new music and artists here, I would say that Sellaband and especially SAB HQs actions had (and still have) a very high entertainment factor - always something new, often funny and stupid, never boring ;D
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Mar 3, 2010 22:41:46 GMT
... I can say that after the Arenafest-issue it was over for me. I guess in hindsight it's easy to say SAB-HQ should have taken more time to check out the Arenafest people and as so often happens if something looks too good to be true it probably is too good to be true, but pretty much everyone was excited about the prospect when the news first broke. It was collectively lauded until the cracks started to appear and then everyone was an expert and knew it all along! Maybe they're guilty of getting carried away with the possibilities such a deal offered (as we all were), but it's easy to be wise after the event with the luxury of 20-20 hindsight! For me Arenafest is such a non-issue as to be laughable that people still insist on bring it up as a stick to bash oSAB-HQ with, but maybe I'm missing something other than the apparent failure to do sufficient back ground checks on a prospective partner (remembering that " sufficient" is something we are in the privileged position to be able to use history to judge, and judge wanting!). Is there more to the Arenafest FUBAR than that? Is it just it was the latest in a long line of apparently bad decisions? Maybe they already saw the writing on the wall (!) and were clutching at straws which is why whatever checks they did do turned out to be insufficient? For me though, it is a less damaging bad move than the new Two Week clause in the T&Cs, but maybe history will be less harsh to that one in the end. UBG
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Post by mawa on Mar 3, 2010 22:52:25 GMT
... I can say that after the Arenafest-issue it was over for me. but pretty much everyone was excited about the prospect when the news first broke. It was collectively lauded until the cracks started to appear and then everyone was an expert and knew it all along! really? Or is it just your special glasses? I think it smelled fishy from the first second....and I guess I said so, but sure, that was 'only' me
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Mar 3, 2010 23:06:38 GMT
but pretty much everyone was excited about the prospect when the news first broke. It was collectively lauded until the cracks started to appear and then everyone was an expert and knew it all along! really? Or is it just your special glasses? I think it smelled fishy from the first second....and I guess I said so, but sure, that was 'only' me Well I did say "pretty much everyone" which obviously leaves room for those who profess second sight. I recall a general feeling of optimism about it on the forum etc and I don't recall you saying anything negative about it, but of course that doesn't mean you didn't. It's quite possible that amongst all the other negative stuff you wrote about everything else there was some early anti-Arenafest stuff floating about too but I do only recall it from after it all started to collapse like the house of cards it was! Just a shame you were the boy who cried wolf, 'cos perhaps oSAB-HQ might have heard, let alone listened! UBG
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Post by mawa on Mar 3, 2010 23:19:29 GMT
I still can offer consulting sessions, you know, UBG? For a moderate fee SAB at that time and a while before - and believe me I had my sessions with JohanV and some of the SAb staff - was what I call in a loose translation from German ... 'advise resistant' - if it would have been just me, I would perfectly accept, that it would have been just about me, but I have reason to believe....it wasn't. Ok, enough of the past. The new management has now the task to make their own mark. I seriously hope this time its for the better. But more and more I think, time is of the essence now. So far, its just .... nothing tangible.
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 4, 2010 1:02:46 GMT
I recall a general feeling of optimism about it on the forum etc and I don't recall you saying anything negative about it, but of course that doesn't mean you didn't. It's quite possible that amongst all the other negative stuff you wrote about everything else there was some early anti-Arenafest stuff floating about too but I do only recall it from after it all started to collapse like the house of cards it was! What a pity that the SAB HQ/webteam su**ers shut down the old forum and nobody can check it out any more. Okay, when they first announced it, it might have sounded exciting - for a couple of days! But already in the first days after the discussion started. Some people might not have only rose-tinted glasses on, but a bad memory, too: This here might help to remind some things, from my memory: - immediate discussion about the partner company Arena Networks and this Mr. Ossenmacher, which didn't even have a website at that time and no track record (SAB HQ claimed that they were a well established company) - discussion about if that project isn't a bit too big (the 100.000s of new believers promised by Bono V.. what a fun) - discussions if the concept (music+sports) combined would work out at all - discussions about if the target group (18-27 y.o. males) which was totally different from the SAB believer and artists target group + a little bit later- discussions about the (not) to be announced major acts - discussions about the delayed jury of experts - discussion about the ArenaFest website, when the person who programmed it was searching for some help on an internet project job platform... and so on, and so on... pointless to repeat it again, I agree.. Let's see what the new HQ might come up with - though their time to act and communicate is running out, caused by their self-imposed 2 weeks deadline for the agreement. One week has already passed without giving any significant explanation and answers..
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Mar 4, 2010 8:53:05 GMT
Okay, when they first announced it, it might have sounded exciting - for a couple of days! ... There ya go ... that's exactly what I said. Ain't it nice when a plan comes together. My point, such as it is, is that in general, and as Thor agrees, we were ( almost?) all caught up in the initial euphoria because it looked like a great opportunity. That many in the community were able to peak behind the curtain and see the scam for what it was is all well and good, but if someone gets caught out by a scam you don't blame the victim you blame the scammer! Everyone gets taken in at some point. It's not oSellaband's fault that Arenafest was a scam, but perhaps they can be laughed at for failing in their due diligence and being hood-winked, and maybe even some pity for the money they lost, in much the same way as people who fall for the Nigerian Scam! Water under the bridge... nSellaband certainly have their work cut out to rebuild the trust, but that isn't going to happen overnight and IS going to cost them some serious money too! Interesting Times UBG
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xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
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Post by xahmol on Mar 4, 2010 9:31:55 GMT
Hmm, doubting to post because I see not much need to rehash old discussions, but sorry, UBG, you do have a somewhat rosy memory of Arenafest.
As I can remember only the usual pink glasses posters were positive, but many, including myself, doubted how ever the Arenafest concept would fit the artists and user demographics that SAB at that moment had. And I certainly do not remember initial euphoria, but that might be my colored glasses speaking. Many, including myself, I remember were even quite annoyed as it seemed that suddenly the whole promotion strategy of SAB was tied to Arenafest. Which would mean that most artists that were in the singer/songwriter genre did not have any chance in that strategy as nobody could see Ellie Williams for example in a concept tied with sports for an US only young audience.
And that criticism was even before the doubts about the solidity of the partner started, but that discussion started quite quick as well as Thor correctly remembers.
Not that I want to say 'I told you so' but as I remember a very important percentage of forum posters did not believe in Arenafest from the start. We could not fathom is would end THAT dramatically, but many agreed it was a complete no-fit with SAB at that time. And therefore proof SAB had no clue as to what it's strategy was. The strategy was proofing more and more to be dictated by chance meetings with business partners that were getting more and more shadier, than any well thought plan of SAB HQ themselves.
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Mar 4, 2010 10:58:56 GMT
Hmm, doubting to post because I see not much need to rehash old discussions, but sorry, UBG, you do have a somewhat rosy memory of Arenafest. As I can remember only the usual pink glasses posters were positive, but many, including myself, doubted how ever the Arenafest concept would fit the artists and user demographics that SAB at that moment had. And I certainly do not remember initial euphoria, but that might be my colored glasses speaking. Many, including myself, I remember were even quite annoyed as it seemed that suddenly the whole promotion strategy of SAB was tied to Arenafest. Which would mean that most artists that were in the singer/songwriter genre did not have any chance in that strategy as nobody could see Ellie Williams for example in a concept tied with sports for an US only young audience. And that criticism was even before the doubts about the solidity of the partner started, but that discussion started quite quick as well as Thor correctly remembers. LOL: OK, so you're saying that _before_ the solidarity of the partner was in question you had some issues with the arrangements ... So another one agreeing that the Arenafest lack of substance wasn't immediately obvious ... I do remember some disquiet at the limited genres that Arenafest were targeting but I didn't (don't) see that as a problem. If Arenafest had worked and some of the 'Rock' SAB bands had got to play it could have been good for Sellaband, and anything good for Sellaband would have been good for the excluded genres too. I think it is unreasonable to assume that SAB should pass up on opportunities if they don't equally cover all the music types on offer through the website, in a similar way that I think it is unreasonable to expect SAB to turn down other opportunities if they are similarly geographically limiting. So, you didn't like the partnership ('cos you thought it unfairly excluded some genres of Artist) but it was a few days (as Thor said) before the cracks started to appear. Not that I want to say 'I told you so' but as I remember a very important percentage of forum posters did not believe in Arenafest from the start. We could not fathom is would end THAT dramatically, but many agreed it was a complete no-fit with SAB at that time. And therefore proof SAB had no clue as to what it's strategy was. The strategy was proofing more and more to be dictated by chance meetings with business partners that were getting more and more shadier, than any well thought plan of SAB HQ themselves. I'd say whether the SAB-Arenafest setup was a good or bad fit is a different argument from whether or not they were taken in by a bunch of tricksters (actually, I don't know whether the AF folks genuinely believed they could pull it off or not, and maybe they were genuine too). IMHO, had Arenafest got off the ground it would have been good for Sellaband, and therefore good for all the Artists past, present, and future. That some Artists were excluded from it is just one of those things and it must happen ALL THE TIME that an Artist's genre rules it out of some gigs and in for others. That they were presumably going to be selecting Artists who may appeal to the target audience is also what happens all the time and it would have been foolish to do otherwise. The issue isn't, wasn't, that SAB-Arenafest was a bad fit, it's that Arenafest appears to have been all smoke and mirrors and the oSAB folks didn't see through it early enough ... and you seem to agree that it took you a couple of days to start seeing the cracks too, regardless of whether or not you liked the idea, though possibly you might have been looking harder for cracks as you weren't sold on the partnership from the get-go? ... whilst this is all in the past I do find it interesting that certain people continue to bring it up as a 'negative' point on the oSAB score card. OK ... to be fair, it was a monumental thingy-up, but as I said, other than failing to see Arenafest for the cardboard cut-out it was I don't see it as bad to have been interested in the concept as it would have been great had it worked. Sure, it would've been better for some Artists than others, but that's the way of the world my friend! Did you buy Parts equally in all Artists to be fair to them all, or did you buy Parts based on your own preferences? ... anyway ... nice to be able to chat in a civilised manner It's rather like the old days ... Regards Utt
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 4, 2010 11:33:52 GMT
I agree, Mr. V and Mr. O with their ArenaFest project have been a bunch of tricksters, fooling the believers - at least trying it ;D
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xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
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Post by xahmol on Mar 4, 2010 11:44:14 GMT
I do remember some disquiet at the limited genres that Arenafest were targeting but I didn't (don't) see that as a problem. If Arenafest had worked and some of the 'Rock' SAB bands had got to play it could have been good for Sellaband, and anything good for Sellaband would have been good for the excluded genres too. I think it is unreasonable to assume that SAB should pass up on opportunities if they don't equally cover all the music types on offer through the website, in a similar way that I think it is unreasonable to expect SAB to turn down other opportunities if they are similarly geographically limiting. Maybe we should agree to disagree Anyway and final comment: I think SAB should have passed on opportunities that did not fit almost all 50k artists at that time. Besides, in the communication of SAB HQ at that time they were scarily tying up their entire promotion and communications plan together with AF, which is kind strange again from the perspective that the concept did not fit almost all artists they needed to promote so far.
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Post by wyando on Mar 4, 2010 12:36:58 GMT
Hmm... on the other side, we've never heard an official statement about the ArenaFest-Disaster (other than oSab HQ saying they were in legal action without any details) and there always are both sides of the story...
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