xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
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Post by xahmol on Mar 1, 2010 21:38:14 GMT
I think it was smarter on their part from a business standpoint to stop the bleeding ASAP. Yeah, but in that case, what did they buy? - Sellaband brand name severely damaged, first thing people will see when Googling Sellaband is 'bankrupt'; - Community almost gone, most active believers left, many active artists left also. What then is left? Starting a fanfunding platform basically from scratch with a damaged brand and difficult obligations from the past. OK, you can start directly with a 'working' platform, but also inherit its many flaws. I really think that the buyers if they proceed this way could have much more effectively invested their money starting a fanfunding site from scratch with a fresh brand name and a software platform without legacy. |
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li
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 35 
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Post by li on Mar 1, 2010 22:16:28 GMT
@xander: In the Talentcast interview the new CEO gave a very clear answer as to why they bought Sellaband. They had a similar idea that they were trying to set up but they had problems with micro-payment. SAB comes with a merchant account of good standing that allows micro-payment.
I'm an expert in Micro-Payment and Merchant Accounts, and I can assure you that a Merchant Account coupled with micro-payment that is in good standing can be worth quite a bit. If it comes with a platform, even though the platform itself has serious problems a.o. with content and customer management that compliments the idea that you had, then this would be my main reason to buy SAB from the Bankruptcy estate.
The new T&C's, the run away of some artists and some of the major believers can be viewed as collateral damage, or maybe better as "Spring Cleaning". Once they've sorted things out from the rubble, they can start to make the changes that they need to broaden the scope of the platform with their idea. The sooner the remains of the bankruptcy are cleaned of the "dust" (I'd say believers and artists for whom the new SAB is not working out), the sooner they can start with a "clean slate". Perfectly legal and perfectly understandable from their point of view and it saved us from claims to the Curator, and hit saved the curator from releasing all the funds to over 16K individuals :-)
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li
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 35
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Post by li on Mar 1, 2010 22:18:45 GMT
thor: Pieps did buy a few parts in a few of his favourite artists during the first few months that he was on SAB. At that time he was not against SAB, he was just against raising 50K for himself. He was there to network and to let people listen to his music.
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li
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 35
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Post by li on Mar 1, 2010 22:41:37 GMT
@franz: Wir machen es dir auch nicht viel einfacher mit Fragen die im Text versteckt worden sind ;-)
Ich werde versuche meine Fragen/Bemerkungen etwas konkreter aus zu deutschen :
1. To have access to your profile and your Balance, you need to accept the T&Cs. This is not legal. You need to give the people who, for whatever reason, can't access their Profile, access to their Profile and Balance.
Explanation: If people click on "Don't Agree", then they need Access that allows them to close their accounts. You can set their Profiles on "inactive", but you are not allowed to prohibit access. Most of the believers have more than money in Escrow and in Revenues. They also have LeCDs and the only overview that they have, and the only reason why believers can't CLOSE their accounts is because their profile is also their shop.
2. If you click of "Don't Agree", you get the money from the escrow back, but their is no mention of your limited editions. What happens with these?
3. If you click on "Don't Agree", then what happens with the limited editions that you will get from the artists that reached their Goal before the Bankruptcy, do you still get these limited editions?
Explanation for 2. and 3.
I understand that Sellaband GmbH took over all duties to the Artists and Believers, which is the main reason why the Court decided to expedite the Bankruptcy this quickly and approve the sale to Sellaband GmbH so quickly too. In effect it means that you can't close a Believer's Profile because he/she didn't agree to the new T&C's. You have to agree to the new T&C's to do new business and trading on Sellaband, but the what the Believer did before the bankruptcy is still valid because this is part of the duties that the GmbH took over.
You can set the profile to "inactive", meaning that the Believer in case can't buy or shift parts anymore, just ask for pay-out and for managing his existing and coming assets from the released limited editions and to be released limited editions. The Believer in case can also ask to have all the limited editions due to him sent to his home address, which would allow you to close the inactive Believer profile sooner.
From a marketing point of few I think that it is better to keep the believers for now, even when they're inactive, because they might like what you're doing with the new site and thus re-activate themselves. If you close their profiles before they have had access, they will never come back at all and you miss a chance to build on a small group of existing active believers.
Vielen Dank für deine Bemühungen!
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Post by Lucretia on Mar 2, 2010 2:12:01 GMT
Hmm I notice we have a very interesting situation developing.
As I write this, John C Fraser is only 19 parts away from reaching his budget, and we are still within 2 weeks of the new T&C being announced. Given we still have people who have not yet accepted or refused the new T&C who have parts in him, what happens if (as expected) he hits his target in the morning.
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 2, 2010 3:04:44 GMT
Hmm I notice we have a very interesting situation developing. As I write this, John C Fraser is only 19 parts away from reaching his budget, and we are still within 2 weeks of the new T&C being announced. Given we still have people who have not yet accepted or refused the new T&C who have parts in him, what happens if (as expected) he hits his target in the morning. Good question. Probably nobody thought of that, an artist reaching the goal so quickly these days. It might be another pending case, just like the artists who reached the goal during the last grace period after the previous T&C changes. And maybe our dear Boudewijn (in case he's still there) or some other SAB staff member will again accuse some believers of illegally removing and/or buying parts ;D |
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danny
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by danny on Mar 2, 2010 6:24:33 GMT
We'll see  He's reached the target - that much I can see without logging in and accepting. Don't think he last changed his plan less than 2 weeks ago, so it should be officially closed were it not for possible non-believers that need to click the I agree button still. Also I thought the new T&C said something about 2 weeks after accepting the T&C? |
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xahmol
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 34
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Post by xahmol on Mar 2, 2010 6:24:35 GMT
I'm an expert in Micro-Payment and Merchant Accounts, and I can assure you that a Merchant Account coupled with micro-payment that is in good standing can be worth quite a bit. OK, take your word for it. Thought starting a site with a micropayment provider was as easy as sign a contract, but apparently there is much more to it. So that probably explains. Which is worrisome, because in that case new management probably could not care less if we stay or leave as we are not seen as an asset. |
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 2, 2010 9:37:37 GMT
What kind of micro payment system are you referring to? The great Sellaband revenue 'payout' system (where the amounts are really micro, I agree) with it's complex rounding issues, maybe? These are just numbers in the database. The real money transaction (buying parts and getting refunds) is operated by an external payment provider (Adyen) or Paypal for payout.
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Post by firlefranz on Mar 2, 2010 13:49:48 GMT
li: thank you for your effort to clarify out the questions.. (in fact i am very busy trying to read all the threats and sorting out the questions ) - very appreciated! since these partly are very sensitive questions for individual and specific issues these circumstances aren´t recorded in depth in the T&Cs and thereby must be checked one after another.
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Post by Lucretia on Mar 2, 2010 14:36:24 GMT
Also I thought the new T&C said something about 2 weeks after accepting the T&C? This is yet another case where the waters could be considered muddy. That particular statement is most obviously aimed at those people newly signing up to the site. If we go back to section 1, it says that if you do not object to the new T&C then after 2 weeks they automatically come into effect. So in this case, if you have made no decision (i.e. you have not formally clicked either the agree or disagree) the question is whether the 2 week period for removing your money is deemed to have started back when the changes were originally announced, or whether the clock only starts ticking from two weeks after the original announcement. As something which I feel has the potential to be interpreted either way, it's not a risk I would be willing to take, hence why I consider the safest decision is to make up your mind within two weeks of the original announcement. |
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danny
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by danny on Mar 2, 2010 15:46:40 GMT
4.5 [...] A believer can also claim back his money without giving any reasons within two weeks after having agreed to these Terms & Conditions Doesn't leave much to the imagination in my (probably biased) view  And I'd say this sentence is specifically aimed at 'old' believers too. |
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thor
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by thor on Mar 2, 2010 16:03:53 GMT
4.5 [...] A believer can also claim back his money without giving any reasons within two weeks after having agreed to these Terms & Conditions Yes, looks like it's crystal clear: A believer can wait for two weeks before agreeing automatically/implicitely to the T&C. But if you agree explicitely (i.e press the agree button), a new two week period is starting. But we know, Sellaband (I mean the old HQ) did very well with always finding absurd Sellabandish interpretations for anything... |
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danny
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 42
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Post by danny on Mar 2, 2010 16:24:13 GMT
Including time indeed :-D If the two weeks are on the same timescale as 'tomorrow' we'll have until april 2012 to decide  |
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Post by grooveduke on Mar 2, 2010 16:26:35 GMT
Regarding John, the main draw back I would think would be on his side of the equation. Since nothing in the new T&Cs has changed that once a target is reached you can't withdraw funds. I would think the main question for him is: does he pay 15% or 10% success fee? (15% is pretty steep, you must admit.)
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He's reached the target - that much I can see without logging in and accepting.
