arnis
Slightly Sellaband addicted
Posts: 114
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Post by arnis on May 25, 2007 22:28:44 GMT
Hey Mr Metal !! Or can I call you sheet? :-) !! I'll happily buy you a beer at LC ! :-) Oops wrong thread !! Actually I also had in my mind the so called 419 scam family, I just didnt feel like mentioning it before. It also seems that Liberia is featuring more and more in this kind of thing, for example www.toastedspam.com/419scams/disptext/rev.nelson.b.morgan_0001And yes you are right the Netherlands has become strongly associated with this kind of thing. Anyway I am sure our friend Willem will come up with the necessary documents that will give those wishing to help, the confidence to do so knowing that their help is utilised to best effect. I can't see any reason why he shouldnt do this in order to help Magnus in these very extreme and troubled times. I know that were I in his situation I would do everything if it meant helping a friend in Magnus's situation. But while we are on the subject of the 419 theme let me share my favourite 419 story:- www.419eater.com/html/john_boko.htmIf you get bored at all. forward to the last paragraph. That should cheer everyone up ! All the Best, Arnis aka the Latvian Del Boy ! :-)
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whaley
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
Posts: 265
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Post by whaley on May 26, 2007 0:35:25 GMT
I must say I'm hesitant about this as well. Thanks arnis and those who responded.
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arnis
Slightly Sellaband addicted
Posts: 114
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Post by arnis on May 26, 2007 0:41:36 GMT
I am really sorry about this guys and gals, but I promise this is the last post on this thread but please can someone reconcile and explain to me the following. Willems website (check copyright at the bottom) www.liberian.org/ is explaining what a great friendly place Liberia is with its sandy beaches, golf courses etc etc inviting tourists and business men to this tropical paradise. At the same time Magnus, as a Liberian is in the blatantly dangerous state of Guinea although he is actually from Liberia, I assume because there are no studios in Liberia. Wouldnt a stop gap life saving solution be to get Magnus back to Liberia?? Apparently it isnt at all life threatening at the moment at least if you read Willems website. A quick glance on the internet shows I can book a one way ticket with Bell View airlines from Conakry to Monravia with transfers in Lagos and Accra for a liitle over 950 USD. Now if Willem and I cash in our 30 parts and some of the other believers in Magnus do the same for another 650 dollars, Magnus's life would be saved and he would still have 450 dollars in the SAB kitty. When he gets back home, we can discuss studios, France etc calmly without life & death dramas. I find this an eminently sensible suggestion and so If Willem and anyone else wants to transfer to me the funds for the ticket I will not only arrange the ticket but I will also pay for fedexing the ticket to MAgnus. I think thats pretty fair, Anyone agree?
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Post by Sheet Metal on May 26, 2007 7:27:54 GMT
I agree. That's a great idea, and would put paid to any remote chance of this being a scam. Send a ticket rather than the money, then the only person who would have it is Magnus.
Again, apologies if any of my thoughts have offended anyone. Please realise that I have nothing to gain from posting here and I can only lose out by causing offence unintentionally. I wasn't going to post at all, so I did not get me and my band associated with any negativity on these forums, but after the brave posts by some people about their reservations I could not keep quiet and keep my concience intact.
Much love, respect and best wishes to all. Most of all I hope Magnus is safe.
Dreb of Sheet Metal
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kegher
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 84
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Post by kegher on May 26, 2007 11:35:02 GMT
I also have my doubts, maybe he really wants to help but it seems he's also into some very fishy business there.
There was a contact address at one of his many tripod sites but the phone numbers don't work anymore, so I called his neighbour and he told me he did actually live there but that's a long time ago. At least he is real.. but still it doesn't fit together. Monday I will ask the KVK (dutch business register) for info on his his company 'ecc events BV'. I don't expect it to have ever existed to be honest.
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Post by theliberian on May 26, 2007 12:40:03 GMT
To EmpireOfOne: Willem does not want any money to be funneled through him. From Willem (theliberian).
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Post by theliberian on May 26, 2007 12:41:34 GMT
Since willem is the only one who has close contact he would probably be the only one to know the best way to help. If willem needs money to give to magnus to help him get out of there we could possibly funnel donations through willem to magnus. I'm not sure if that would help or not?? To EmpireOfOne: Willem does not want any money to be funneled through him. From Willem/theliberian.
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Post by theliberian on May 26, 2007 12:43:03 GMT
To Arnis: I sincerely appreciate all your comments. It is good to read that you want to protect Lily but also try to help Magnus. Transparancy is very important and therefore my response to you for all. 1. The diamonds mentioned on my website is that we are in a position to assist interested parties to get in touch with reliable sources. 2. The statues are old statues between 50 and 350 years. At Sotheby or other auction houses one pays $15,000 for those statues for which we ask $150 to $1,500. If you carefully would read the message you will notice that interested parties can directly contact the sellers in Conakry. 3. Regarding the Bankaccount this was opened because we received e-mails from Sellaband visitors who did not want to buy parts but asked how to donate money to Magnus. The phonenumbers in Conakry change often because phones get stolen and then you have to get a new one. If you want to reach me in Conakry (when I am there) the new number is +22464344369. The faxnumber does not exists any more. IF YOU WANT TO TALK DIRECTLY TO MAGNUS, HIS NUMBER IS: +224 64396540. You can reach me in The Netherlands at +31 610900773 FROM WILLEM (THELIBERIAN)
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Post by theliberian on May 26, 2007 13:03:07 GMT
Dear Lily and SellaBand Community: Thank you so very much for all the good things you are doing for Magnus. I just briefly read the messages at the board sellaband.proboards79.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1179923041&page=1 and I fully understand the hesitation of people. If people are willing to support Magnus financially I propose to open an escrow account under supervision of Lily or the Sellaband Team. Magnus nor me shall be involved. The guardians (Lily and/or SellaBand Team) will pay directly to Air France for the ticket, to the Embassy for the visa and the health insurance coverage required to apply for a visa. My biggest concern is the follow-up- without professional assistance of a manager in Europe, I do not see how MAGNUS can get gigs and to my opinion that should be one of the first issues to tackle before getting him to Europe or the USA. As far as I understand from Magnus he can stay with friends in Paris but has not a dime in his pocket to pay for life expenses. I will discuss this extensively with him after next week when I am back in Conakry. Now to the diamond topics. Magnus nor myself are in the diamond business. The UN ban on diamonds from Sierra Leone and Liberia has been lifted and the markets in those countries are absolutely open for legal trade in raw diamonds. The name blood diamonds origins from the wars in those countries between 1990 and 2003 (Movie Leonardo di Caprio). Since 2000 there is peace in Sierra Leone and the war stopped in Liberia by the end of 2003. Guinea presently is in a state of serious political and economical changes and this results in violent strikes and demonstrations similar to civil war. This does not effect the trade in precious metals in that country. My personal activities in West Africa are connected with the mining of iron ore and titanium, the import of cement and trade consultancy in general. Nearly 30% of my earnings I spend to support families and people in those countries who are in need, amongst them Magnus but I am not a wealthy philanthropic millionaire otherwise I would not hesitate a second to get the guy out-of-Africa immediately. Since a couple of days I am in The Netherlands (I moved from Netherlands Antilles back to Holland) to meet with clients for various projects. By the end of next week I will return to Conakry and hope to palaver with Magnus about all developments. Because I also have to travel to Rome next week for 2 days I lack the time to respond to all messages but I will do my best to keep you all in the loop. To EmpireOfOne: Willem does not want any money to be funneled through him. From Willem (theliberian). To Arnis: I sincerely appreciate all your comments. It is good to read that you want to protect Lily but also try to help Magnus. Transparancy is very important and therefore my response to you for all. 1. The diamonds mentioned on my website is that we are in a position to assist interested parties to get in touch with reliable sources. 2. The statues are old statues between 50 and 350 years. At Sotheby or other auction houses one pays $15,000 for those statues for which we ask $150 to $1,500. If you carefully would read the message you will notice that interested parties can directly contact the sellers in Conakry. 3. Regarding the Bankaccount this was opened because we received e-mails from Sellaband visitors who did not want to buy parts but asked how to donate money to Magnus. The phonenumbers in Conakry change often because phones get stolen and then you have to get a new one. If you want to reach me in Conakry (when I am there) the new number is +22464344369. The faxnumber does not exists any more. IF YOU WANT TO TALK DIRECTLY TO MAGNUS, HIS NUMBER IS: +224 64396540. You can reach me in The Netherlands at +31 610900773 FROM WILLEM (THELIBERIAN) Willem
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arnis
Slightly Sellaband addicted
Posts: 114
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Post by arnis on May 26, 2007 21:16:56 GMT
Hello Willem and welcome to the forum !!
It really is a great pleasure to be able to address these issues directly with your goodself and discuss it in an open way. This really is a very positive step forward.
I would say that any previous reference to your business activities in this discussion became irrelevant as now we have the opportunity to discuss with you directly the real issues of Magnus's well being and none of this is any of our business (unless of course we want to buy wooden statues etc.! :-)
Having said that, can I indulge in one selfish businessman's question out of sheer curiosity. If auction houses such Sothebys are able to sell theses statues for USD 15000, why dont you auction them through there?? Their commisions are quite reasonable and the sellers would make much more money than they make now.
Sorry about that, just curious.:-)
So forgetting all those comments which were simply attempts to understand the background to Lily's request for financial help for Magnus, I would suggest that we get to the meat of the issue.
This is my viewpoint and mine alone:-
I recieved a message containing the following quote " As some of you know I will be away until Wednesday next week, please help me spread the word and help me and Willem save his life."
To me this is emotionally charged, powerful stuff. Hence I took it very seriously and naturally was quite prepared to assist. The essence of your request in the last post is about funding Magnus's emigration to France including providing a fund for his living expenses. I tend to view the two propostions quite differently.
Now I am confused and to help clarify my head on this, I really would appreciate if you could answer my simple questions head on.
I am assuming that Magnus is still in Conakry
1. When Lily referred to saving Magnus's life, is that her interpretation or was she passing on what you had communicated to her? 2. Is Magnus's life in mortal danger? 3. Would Magnus be safe in Liberia? 4. How much would it cost to get Magnus to Liberia in a safe and reasonable manner?
I think having these answered together with any other pertinent info on the current state of MAgnus;s current situation would certainly help clarify things.
Best Regards
Arnis
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Post by theliberian on May 27, 2007 8:35:38 GMT
Hello Arnis. Thanks again for the response and also for the e-mail you sent. Let me respond to your issues and add some extra information to the questions/remarks from other. WEST AFRICAAlmost 70% of all West Africans have the big dream to move to the’ lands of milk and honey’ in Europe and the USA. Average they make $1.00 per day and that is not enough to feed a (big) family. Borders to Europe and USA get more and more closed and it is not easy for an African to make the big leap. You can imagine that in a country where people only make $1.00 per day it is extremely hard for a musician to make a living especially with contemporary music. Who can afford to pay him. So the artist gets some rice, water and maybe $4.00 per gig (if he has one!) 1 gig a week. Perhaps this explains why Magnus has no future in Liberia yet. This country just came out of a long bloody civil war (1990-2003), 150,000 people got killed and till 2004 400,000 where displaced. Magnus was one of them. LIBERIAYes, Liberia is a beautiful country and the website www.liberian.org is a non political website to promote Liberia. If this site would tell about all the bad things it would not be a promotional instrument to place Liberia back on the map of awareness in a positive way. It will take many years before this country gets restored and live gets better again, but there is hope because slowly slowly investors are coming in. When finally better times come for musicians and other artists Magnus will be too old to be considered a young and hip artist. That are all kind of considerations for Magnus not to return to his birth place where they killed his father, his sisters and his brothers. He told me that last time he was in Liberia he saw former rebels who killed members of his family walking in the streets of Monrovia. That scared the hell out of him. Perhaps this makes things more clear. MASKSAt the gate of the Mariador Palace hotel in Conakry lives a small artistic community. They can not afford to have an own website and therefore I gave them space on my server and developed for them individual pages FOR FREE. The guys just want to sell some paintings, masks and statues or jewelry. Thank God they get some response on the website and sell enough to feed the families. Sometimes they give me a painting or a mask as present in return for my services. ANSWERS TO ARNISa) The shop owners do not have the money to send and insure valuable ancient artifacts directly to Sothebys or Christies. Most of the masks are too young to be considered that valuable and if they have a good piece a smart ‘white man’ buys it for an apple and an egg! I am not in that business and have my own things to do. The page about these sellers is to give them a platform and interested parties can contact them directly and propose or negotiate. b) Let me express once again Magnus’ and my gratitude for Lily. She is really a wonderful person with a golden heart and it makes me happy to see that concerned member of Sellaband take care of her and try to protect her from possible scam. Having said that I hope you all understand that Magnus and myself are in NO WAY scammers, criminals or crooks. 1. Lily made her interpretation on the fact that Magnus not even makes one dollar per day and in that sense she is right,; the man’s health and well being is in danger and with that also his career. 2. No Magnus life is not in mortal danger but I would say his creativity and talent are! From the other hand, recently we had strikes and army revolt in Conakry. There was shootings and people cooled their anger specially on foreigners. The troubles in Guinea are not over yet and it can happen in no time that a real civil war breaks out. In that case Magnus’ life is really in danger again like it was during the war in Liberia. 3. Nobody is safe yet in Liberia. See the above. 4. To travel to Liberia is possible on a hop-on taxi for approx $150. This will take days in a car with at least 10 people. If he wants to take his belongings with him he has to rent all taxi seats and that will cost him at least $600. This also forces him to change taxi 2 times at the borders of Sierra Leone and Liberia. The custom people then will check his luggage and that again will cost him an other $200 because that is the way how they make their living at the border. No Salary but bribe. Hope this answers more of the many questions and I am at any time willing to respond to any question or remark. In the case there would be enough fund for Magnus to “escape” from poverty and misery, I have a good feeling that perhaps Air France or SN Brussels Airlines would be willing to sponsor Lily’s and Sellaband’s Community campaign to get Magnus over to the west. Best regards Willem Tijssen
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arnis
Slightly Sellaband addicted
Posts: 114
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Post by arnis on May 27, 2007 12:39:56 GMT
Hi Willem et al!
Firstly I just want to say that from my point of view you have allayed many of my worst fears on what might have been happening here. I understand what you are saying but I feel uneasy with many aspects. I believe that you are not scammers or criminals, but I think that the way this Magnus campaign was started in a misleading way, albeit unintentionally, has hindered rather than helped Magnus's cause.
Unfortunately, my free time is limited for the next 48 hours or so, and I would like to progress this discussion with thought and care. From your responses I gather Magnus is safe at the moment (by african standards) so I do not see the need for undue haste. I think it is possible to develop some ideas which would be positive for Magnus and a couple of things are going on in my head. I do not feel it is appropriate that SAB is involved, they have already made a great contribution by creating a community which is already providing support . There is an old adage which says that before you can do good, you must do well !!!
I am desperately interested in hearing honest feedback from other members of this forum on the issues discussed, so I ask those that are following this thread to please put down your thoughts.
I am all for seeking ways of helping Magnus help himself but I dont think it entails putting MAgnus on a plane to France, at least, just at the moment! :-)
As I said, I will be tied up for th enext couple of days and so my response speed will drop for a while (unless I give up sleeping ! :-)) I would really appreciate if some other members would express their opinions, thoughts and feelings.
All the very best,
Arnis
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klaus
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 75
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Post by klaus on May 27, 2007 14:38:27 GMT
@willem: Thanks for clarifying as you did in this thread. arnis: From my perspective it's very simple: If it takes a modest effort from some of us to get Magnus out of an unsustainable situation, then I'm all for it and willing to chip in. It sounds like the most important thing would be to help get him to a country where he can start turning his talent into real money. I don't really know all the details involved, but I suspect his best bet will be to find a couple of other artists to gig with and thus apply for an artist's visa (at least that would be the easiest route here in the US, I'm not sure about Europe). Does anybody have any thoughts on how to pull this off or can anyone come up with other ideas?
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kegher
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 84
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Post by kegher on May 27, 2007 15:04:14 GMT
I really appreciate your attempt to make this 'deal' as see through as possible, but what about the bribes you need in a country like liberia to get a visa for Magnus? When you set up an escrow account it still has to be collected for these purposes so in the end such an account won't make much of a difference. From what i've read on the 'civil war' in Conakry, it's mostly military asking for payraises, but they leave most of the civil population alone and life still goes on in the city. I'm not sure what he has flee from. (of course i can talk easy sitting cozy in peaceful holland). And in my opinion as long as it's safe it seems best that Magnus stays in his homeland, you don't just leave friends and family behind. If we collect money for Magnus, wouldn't it be awesome if he could buy a camera and internet connection so he can show us what life is there, what he does with his music and with the magnus child foundation? I think that'll help his sellaband course much more. Of course only if it's safe...
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Post by mawa on May 27, 2007 15:19:04 GMT
I must admit, I've quite mixed feelings and opinions as well.
Indeed following 'the story' leads for me to raise my eyebrowses, less on the scam part or doubt on the good intentions of anyone but more on the, well, lack of abilities. I have doubts regarding the abilites shown to make this 'a good cause', more doubts on the abilities to give it a better end.
On a personal note, I don't believe, we will redeem ourselves, not from the heritage of our beliefs, not from the consequences of our actions and not from the pure fact of the luxury we're living in, by getting one man out of a damned, widely forgotten and lost place, but who cares. This may at all not be the question.
But if doing it, I'm with Arnis: better try to do it 'well'.
- What are the different options: staying where he is with some 'funds', annother place in Africa, France, another European country - advantages/disadvantages/required effort of the different options - tasks required, who could do/has to do what? - a 'plan'?
Well, and on the 'cynical' site: if this is done 'well', it good be a brilliant marketing for SAB, too, so why not.
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