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Post by EmpireOfOne on Jun 14, 2007 2:46:18 GMT
I know we've discussed the potential download site on numerous occasions, but during my time in London I heard some updated information directly from Johan. Did anyone else hear Johan talking about this subject and wether or not those details are official or still being worked out? I don't want to discuss what I heard unless it is pretty firm because it might still change, but I think most people have heard by now about the 3 free songs.
On the other hand, if those details ARE accurate, then I think we'll have to re-think our opinions of sellaband as an "investment", because the new model would be a pretty significant change from the sellaband we originally joined.
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Post by glassmoon on Jun 14, 2007 5:50:49 GMT
You mean that instead of free downloading ALL of the songs of the recorded album its only gonna be 3? If thats the case, you can also look at it this way: Why buying the album if you can download all the songs? Maybe 3 free downloads isnt a bad idea, but then SAB should have mentioned this from the start.
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Post by magnusbe on Jun 14, 2007 7:02:23 GMT
I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. I was hoping that SAB would be an example of how in fact people will pay even if they can get individual tracks for free.
There should at the very least be sizeable samples of all the songs on the album.
All music published by major labels and a lot of the indies are free on the net now, glassmoon. All DVD's also. People still buy them.
As I've written elsewhere, if any of the SAB-artists really get big, their music will be available on filesharing networks. Wouldn't it be better that people can find all the music at SAB rather than The Pirate Bay?
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Post by glassmoon on Jun 14, 2007 7:55:35 GMT
Yeah, maybe your right. And it was just a thought, not our opinion. From our point of view having a real cd with artwork and stuff is more fun then just downloading songs. So people still would buy the cd. And its indeed better if people download from SAB rather then a pirate site. We think we should stick with all the songs instead of just 3. And those 5000 are LE cd´s! Thats gotta count for something!
P.s. YES, post # 100!!!
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johanv
Slightly Sellaband addicted
The Boss
Posts: 153
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Post by johanv on Jun 14, 2007 8:18:14 GMT
Hey Empire, I heard him say that too: 3 free downloads per album! All joking aside, in the next Tribune we will announce details of the downloadportal and the store. I don't know if this changes the business model, and Glassmoon, I don't know either if you should feel disappointed. Here's the thing: If we go back 12 months in time and look where are now, there are so many things that have changed from the initial plan. But I can assure you that whatever decision we make, we have thought long and hard about it and feel these are necessary changes and we're confident that it will make this whole adventure more realistic and stronger. The concept of SellaBand itself has not changed and will not change. But it is all work in progress (As I've said many times before) and there are many things that we did not foresee or couldn't have known when we launched the site back in August. 1. Offering Believers the opportunity to sell their 'overstock' of limited editions was never in the plan. We figured that some people would buy as many as 10 Parts in any given artist, but 500? No way. So we thought about a solution and came up with selling the digi-packs for 15$ which brings some extra money to the Artists and guarantees at least some profit on the physical product for the Believers. 2. The Believers Shops. This was also we made up as we went along. We grant you the right to sell 'product' (downloads. CD's, t-shirts) of the Recording Artists you own Parts in and every time something is sold that links through to your page, you get an extra commission. That way you could add money to your balance much quicker than with 'just' your 1/5000 split. 3. Physical CD-distribution. Initially we were just going to do the digi-pack and skip the regular version (very 'old school' we thought), but after speaking to so many bands, they all wanted physical product to sell at gigs and their local record-store. And then we launched the site and so many bands signed up and they were all dscussing how SellaBand was going to get their records in the shops, so we went back to the drawing board and yes, we will manufacture regular jewelcases, are talking to offline distribution partners and will have a proper system set up before the end of the Summer. 4. Downloads. For every song you give away for free you will have to pay between 6 of 8 eurocents (10 dollarcents) to a collecting rights society, depending on which society you subscribe to. We can be as revolutionairy as we want, but those societies don't give a d**n, they just want to charge what is rightfully theirs. So, this is a potential loss leader, especially in the short term, where our traffic is not yet big enough to bring us millions of dollars from advertising, fo which again, we're going to give away 66,5% to our partners (i.e. Artists and Believers). If we'd give away the full Nemesea album, we'd pay 1$ in mechanical rights for every full album download. You guys do the maths on this one... 5. Equally important, in the initial plan, the 'album' was gonna be a six track EP, but then we spoke to all kinds of musicians who were thinking about signing up to SellaBand and they all went. 6 tracks for 50K, are you kidding us? We want a full album! Okay, so go ahead and make a full album.... There are so many more examples of how reality was different than the theory, but in general I think it's safe to say that we talked, listened and learned... One final example? One year ago I had no idea that in June 2007 I would be shocked by the quality of the albums SellaBands would record. I had never heard of Cubworld, but his 10 track album has brought tears to my eyes. Yes, it's that good. And Nemesea make me want to start a brand new label and be a record exec again... These are very exciting times and Pim, Dagmar and I are totally confident that with these minor and major changes we have found the right formula to make this thing work and keep everybody happy. There you go, a long story, but this is the truth and you have the right to disagree, but I hope you'll at least appreciate that we're open about it... JohanV
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Jun 14, 2007 8:43:03 GMT
... 4. Downloads. For every song you give away for free you will have to pay between 6 of 8 eurocents (10 dollarcents) to a collecting rights society, depending on which society you subscribe to. ... Hi Johan, Many thanks for the reply - I too thought it would be the whole album available for download, and was similarly concerned about the change to 3 tracks, but given what you say about paying to give stuff away it does seem like a sensible idea. What I don't get is why you have to pay these people? What have they done to aid the process of producing, or in this case distributing, the music, and what do they do with the money? Do artists have to pay these fees if they give stuff away on mySpace or through their own websites? Perhaps you could offer Artists their own "website" with SAB, and the free downloads could be from there, perhaps getting around the issue? [Actually, I guess not as you chaps know infinitely more about it that I do : LOL :] Utt
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Post by magnusbe on Jun 14, 2007 8:43:50 GMT
Yeah, thanks for the answer. Quite enlightning.
Does one have to pay the same mechanical rights for streaming and "downloading"?
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Post by Rey Gamba IV on Jun 14, 2007 9:23:10 GMT
@johan That rights (.10$) per track that SellaBand has to pay for, are these also the so called "publishing rights" meaning that is comes back in a 60/30/10 split for the artist/SsellaBand/A&R manager? And if someone downloads the track twice does this mean 2 times paying the fee or only 1 fee per download IP/user.
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Jun 14, 2007 9:30:48 GMT
@rey: As I understand it, you can only download each track once (presumably, per "Registration" on the site).
Utt
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Post by glassmoon on Jun 14, 2007 10:02:13 GMT
Hey Johan,
This makes sense indeed. If the costs are to great then there is no other way! Its good that you guys think about this stuff and dont let the exitement carry you away (like it does with me ;-)). Just makes me wanna reach that 50K more desperately! Any 1 wanna buy 4725 parts?
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danielwm
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 57
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Post by danielwm on Jun 14, 2007 10:04:48 GMT
I have to say that as an artist I welcome the team's re-think. Giving away music for free is a big part of the business model but the thought of giving away all the music for free made me not feel my legs any more!
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johanv
Slightly Sellaband addicted
The Boss
Posts: 153
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Post by johanv on Jun 14, 2007 10:05:12 GMT
@ UBG, Part of the reason is also that some artists are concerned about so called devaluation of their music, but the general thought is that we give 3 tracks away which should generate more traffic and at the same time will function as prefect promotion for the artist. You as a Believer can drive your friends to the site and tell them where to get free music and for the artist there is the notion that if the person who's downloaded the three tracks really like them that he/she may be inclined to pay a little money (downloads will be 50 cents each, at 256 bitrate, which if I'm not mistaken is the 'premium quality' tariff for i-tunes) and DRM free, so again quite revolutionary. As far as the collecting rights societies are concerned. They haven't contributed anything, but that's not the point. They are there to secure and protect the rights of the artists and if you subscribe to their services they will 'track' your music and fight for your rights. I do have an opinion about all this, but it's the way of the world. so, if we wouldn't submit their fees we would be dubbed as 'illegal' and that would be opening a whole different can of worms. magnusbe: streaming and downloads are 2 different things, at least in the eyes of the collecting rights societies. But yes, SellaBand has to pay for streaming to, but we have been able to make a very reasonable agreement with one of these societies. Rey Gamba IV: these are the so called mechanical rights. And you pay this money for every single download. And they don't care if we offer them for free or charge $10, each. In theory we pay 10 or 11 $-cents, after which 15 to 20% will be deducted by the collecting rights society as 'administration'. Say there's 8 cents left, this will then be paid out to the publisher, which happens to be... us. According to the 60/30/10 split, as a company we would get between 2 and 3 cents back for every 11 cents we pay. Doesn't sound like a healthy business to me. Which left us a couple of options: 1. Be illegal (meaning we don't pay any mechanical rights) 2. Force artists to waive their rights. 3. Only accept artists who have not registered their music in any way or form. 4. Find a way around it and try to make it work in another way. We've chosen option 4, meaning only 3 free songs per album and only 1 download per consumer.
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Post by vegasdragons on Jun 14, 2007 11:08:18 GMT
Thank you for all the great information Boss! So great to be on Sellaband in these exciting times!
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Post by Rey Gamba IV on Jun 14, 2007 11:34:44 GMT
Well lets do math like Johan suggested: Hmmm if i understand it welll, SellaBand has to pay 0,1$ per download, after leaving out the administration there is 0.08$ left, The artist get his 60% =0.048$ for three tracks makes 0,144$ So for every 1000 customers downloading all three songs the artist earns 144$ and SellaBand pays $300-$72=228$
Lets assume it' going to be very succesful and we get 1.000.000 downloaders who will download all 6 albums (3 tracks), that will cost Sellaband netto 1.368.000$ !! Well let's hope there will be a lot of airplay coming out of this and advertising revenue, otherwise it's almost like a doom scenario voor SellaBand. But knowing you guys, you have already anticipated on this luxury problem :-)
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Post by EmpireOfOne on Jun 14, 2007 11:50:20 GMT
Well since Johan popped in to comment on it, I guess those details are indeed pretty official I think that is good news. I'm sure everyone was wondering when SAB would have to make the jump from just physical cds to selling digital songs. That seems to be the future of the industry so at least we seem to be starting up heading in the right direction. I'm assuming that the pay-per-downloads are going to function the same as physical cd sales with a 50/50 profit split after SAB's admin costs? Also artists will want to know who picks the 3 songs? Is there also a "commission" built into the download price the way the LE cd has? One important question I have is will artists also be able to post for sale their old tunes on their download page? A lot of artists have older tunes on iTunes and such and some of them may be happy to put those songs side by side with their new cd. Having this option would also promote the feeling that SAB is the 'home-base' for the artist...a one stop shop for distributing all of their music, video, shirts etc. To me it seems best to make the artists as comfortable as possible. A happy artist benefits all of us. It would also increase the library-effect so that any visitors know there are much more songs on sellaband and thus more reason to come. Also will the reverse be true? Would SAB be able to sell the new cd on iTunes (or other similar partner) and count that the same as a physical cd sale in regards to profit splitting? Now I suppose that I have to wait until tuesday to hear the rest of the details! I'm just disapointed that I never had the chance to buy Nemesea parts and that Cubworld sold out much faster than I thought so I didn't get extra parts there either! Live and learn I guess.
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