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Post by magnusbe on May 21, 2007 6:25:35 GMT
I'd like to see some numbers here, not just opinions.
There's no reason to believe free downloads will kill off CD-sales. If the artist is popular enough to sell records, the record will be pirated anyway. If people download the songs off the SAB-site we get the ad revenue. If people pirate them, we don't get anything but publicity and a possible fan base.
So, I think we should offer all tracks for free download, maybe also a premium service where poeple can pay for higher quality rips of the tracks.
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on May 21, 2007 8:01:07 GMT
As I understand it, all the CD tracks are available for download, and the (ordinary) CD is available for purchase for $10. I think a lot of people will download, and quite a few will also buy the CD as it's only $10 and people, in general, like to own CDs.
It will be interesting to see the figures for No of Downloads vs No of CD Sales - this is the proof of the concept!
After the downloads and/or CD Sales it ought to encourage people to chip in for the next Artists to reach $50K - you get a Ltd Edition CD and potential pay-back, and the knowledge that you helped the Artist, ALL for $10!
But we have to wait and see if it actually works ...
UBG
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Post by wyando on May 22, 2007 21:01:15 GMT
cd's are much better than just some downloads!!!! agreed!
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Post by mastercelebrator on Jun 11, 2007 7:16:36 GMT
I forgot the exact split but how much $$$$ does the artist get for LE's delivered to the believer. I know I can probabaly search and find it somewhere but I thought this tread was my best bet and I don't recall this info from the weekly news...does anybody know? Thx
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Jun 11, 2007 7:28:44 GMT
The sale of the Ltd Edition ("LE") CDs (for $10 a "Part") is what gets the Artist into the studio. The Artist doesn't get anything else from these CDs.
The Artist only gets a share of the "ordinary" CD and the download share of the Advertising Revenue.
Cheers
UBG
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Post by mastercelebrator on Jun 11, 2007 7:50:01 GMT
OK, thx
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Post by shaneseymour on Jun 11, 2007 7:59:32 GMT
There mechanical royalties are paid for the believer LE CD and if the believer decides to sell them through the sellaband store the artist gets $1 from the sale as well. For believer CDs that the believer has posted to them there's no extra bit for the artist then.
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hogdaddee
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 17
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Post by hogdaddee on Jun 11, 2007 13:20:38 GMT
I've been working on something of a "believer prospectus" regarding the potential return on a sellaband investment which may in part answer the question posed by Magnusbe and to give some sense of the money potential.
Here a draft - IT IS A WORK IN PROGRESS - so please correct my errors or make suggest additions, deletions, changes:
The Breakdown
Limited Edition CD
The $50k budget raised thorugh the believer program goes to SAB to cover the cost of recording and producing 5,000 “limited edition” (LE) CD's.
Believer receives full rights to 1 LE CD for each $10.00 part purchased. 1 part purchased = 1 CD, 10 parts = 10 CD's etc.
CD's are numbered 1 - 5000 and believer's CD's are allocated to them based on when they buy into an artist. So the first believer to buy in gets the first CD's.
Example:
1st believer buys 10 parts they are allocated CD's #1 - 10 and so forth.
Believer may take physical possession of every LE CD realized through their parts purchased and distribute them AT THEIR DISCRETION or may choose to have any number of their LE CD's sold on their behalf by SAB, through their web-based store.
If the believer chooses to have their CD’s sold through SAB, their CD’s will be sold in order of the “buy-in” allocation with the lowest number CD available being the first sold.
For LE CD’s sold through SAB, SAB will deduct $1.00 and remaining net proceeds shall go to the believer.
Actual revenue is a matter of the sale price -
If you chose to sell your cd's direct the net revenue is the sale price (you determine) minus $10.00 (parts purchase) minus any other expense.
If you sell through SAB - the net revenue is the sale price minus $10.00 (parts purchase) minus $1.00
I saw somwhere that the target price for the LE CD is $16.00 (USD) or about $12.00 (eu).
IS THIS ACCURATE?
Regular Edition CD’s
In addition to the LE CD’s, Sellaband will produce a regular edition of the artist’s CD for sale through its’ web-based store. 50% of the net revenue from these sales shall be distributed to the artists’ believers multiplied by their percent of parts owned as follows:
1 part = 0.0002 x 100 or 0.02% 10 part = 0.002 x 100 or 0.2% 100 part = 0.02 x 100 0r 2.0%
Example:
50% net revenue = $10,000.00 (hypothetical)
Believer Revenue: 1 part owned = $2.00 10 parts owned = $20.00 100 parts owned = $200.00
Advertising Revenue
Net advertising revenue generated through Sellaband’s web-based store, shall be equally divided, 1/3 each, between Sellband, the artists and their believers based on the number of the particular’s artist downloads as a percentage of the total number of downloads and the believer’s parts percentage.
Example:
500,000 total downloads 10,000 artists downloads Artist’s generated percent of advertising revenue = 2%.
Total net advertising revenue = $30,000.00 (hypothetical) Artists generated share of 2% = $600.00 Believer pool revenue = $200.00 Believer revenue = $0.04 per part owned
Believer Remunerations
Believer remunerations shall accrue over a calendar year and shall be paid to the believer by Sellaband within the first quarter of the subsequent year.
Example:
Believer earnings in 2007 accrue through 12/2007 and will be paid 1st quarter 2008. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question regarding free downloads - it is my understanding from the discussion that took place with Johan during the "Maitreya countdown chat" that only 3 tracks from the CD would be available for free.
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whaley
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
Posts: 265
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Post by whaley on Jun 11, 2007 16:14:24 GMT
- only 3 tracks for free download: true, confirmed by JohanV - not sure about what happens if you buy e.g. part #1, #1000, #4242 I would think you'd get the cd marked #1, a cd _close to_ #1000 and a cd close to #4242. I say close to because when you get part #1000 (i.e. artist is at $9990 and you buy 1 part) it is still possible that someone else drops a part and your #1000 is now #999. I DON'T think you will get #1,#2,#3 (3 parts, starting at #1) - sales price of LE CD through SAB site will be $15. As I understand it, there will be a shop at the artist's page and a shop at the believer's page. There's a slight difference in what you earn from the cd if it gets sold through your own profile's shop. - I wonder if cd shop payout is instant or "early next year" as you say
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funfile
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 82
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Post by funfile on Jun 11, 2007 18:58:11 GMT
- I wonder if cd shop payout is instant or "early next year" as you say I should think payout is (almost) instant for the sale of your own LE CD's through the SAB-shop. It simply wouldn't be fair if you should have to wait till each year December-January to get the payment for your sold CD's.
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hogdaddee
Sellaband addict in waiting
Posts: 17
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Post by hogdaddee on Jun 11, 2007 20:40:02 GMT
@ whaley free downloads - I thought I heard "read" Johan say that CD sequence - understood that actual number may vary for reason cited but should still be sequential CD price - $15.00 (USD) not $16.00 (USD) though I think $12.00 euro is corrrect
@ funfile - payout on LE CD - excellent and valid point - can we get further clarification / confirmation?
My point in doing this is simple - (as of this writing) there are 4,168 listed artists on SAB - this means that it would take believer investments of a staggerig $208,400,000.00 to get each of these artist to the $50K budget.
Okay we all know that will never happen because simply not every artist will sell the required 5,000 parts for any of a number of reasons including the fact that, subjective as it is, their music is not "embraced" nor considered worth embracing.
There are basically 3 believer camps:
The "altrusitic" believer" who's investing because they really like the artist and want to help with, and be a part of their success - and get a free CD.
The "investor" believer who's primary motivation is to invest in an artist that they feel has "market" potential with the objective of getting as high a return on their investment as they can.
The "hybrid" believer who invests for the combined "altruistic" and "investor" reasons.
While the altrusitic believers are the "heart and soul"of sellaband, the investor and hybrid believers are the lungs and the legs.
Unless this thing really explodes - in most cases, there will not be nor do I believe will ever be enough "altruistic" believers to get a sufficient number of artist to $50K. So if this is an acceptable premise - success lies in the ability to attract "investor" and "hybrid" believers and to do this you need to show them the money.
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Utterly B Groovy
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
He Moves And He Grooves But He Don't Got Hooves
Posts: 468
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Post by Utterly B Groovy on Jun 11, 2007 21:26:59 GMT
I think the general concept was that a Believer would be someone willing to pre-pay for a CD (ie one copy) of some music they rather like. Especially as the price is only $10 (+ a skim for the credit card companies). This would be the fourth "believer camp" (amongst our Believer camps are numbered such diverse "camps" as ...).
The problem with this model is that most people pre-paying for a single CD probably won't want to wait a year or more to receive it. Not 6 months, probably not even 3 months! Remember that it would appear to take anything from 4 to 6 months to create the CD once the $50K is reached!
This being early days, there simply aren't enough Believers out there to find 5000 of them for an individual Artist, so we've had people buying more than one copy - indeed 500 copies! That has been a real bonus to SAB as it's surely pushed the model forward more rapidly than they would have expected. I think "Invester" Believers are here to stay - it seems sensible to buy a few copies if you genuinely think the music is marketable.
Hopefully, the availability of music for download, and CDs to buy will help attract more people to the site, and hopefully some of them will be converted into Believers, of whichever "camp"!
Utt
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whaley
Somewhat Sellaband addicted
Posts: 265
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Post by whaley on Jun 11, 2007 21:36:07 GMT
I didn't expect to be in any kind of 'camp'
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Post by magnusbe on Jun 11, 2007 22:13:15 GMT
It will be interesting to see how the "only three songs"-download turns out. I think it would be better to change these tracks every month or so, at least one of them, to bring back people who already downloaded all three. That way they can be exposed to more ads.
I promise to turn off the adblocker, and maybe even check out some ads ;-) It's been some years sionce the last time, but I'll gladly add to your coffers in this case.
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Post by EmpireOfOne on Jun 12, 2007 1:20:47 GMT
Technically I suppose I'm a hybrid, but in reality I don't expect to make profit from my investment. I'll be surprised if I don't break even, but honestly if that is as far as it goes I'll still be happy because I get to help out some great artists and get to know them before they become big stars
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